oma is for grandma

reflections, thoughts and stories on and about us: a half-Australian-half-German family attempting to raise bilingual children

Thursday, February 9

expat or immigrant?

As you can see I'm still thinking about the whole expat thing and Michael and I were starting to wonder how the term 'immigrant' fits into the whole argument.
Well the blonde librarian put it very nicely in an email. I thought I should really put this on my blog as it adds a whole new perspective to the discussion (and I hope it might encourage us to take our thoughts a little further 'round a different bend)


According to one definition I found, as opposed to an immigrant who comes to a country to live, an expat is one who always intends to return to their home country, so that made me wonder if I should call myself an immigrant instead.

I guess all in all it doesn't really matter what I am, but I have found that by labeling myself as an expat I have encountered lots of people going through the same types of experiences as I am and that makes for a great sense of community.


I totally agree with that and think that the label 'immigrant' might fit my situation a lot better but so why don't we adopt the label 'immigrant'? Is one more favourable than the other? Maybe going with what the blonde librarian said, going by 'expat' just allows us to whine and complain a little better (doesn't it just make you feel so much better to complain a bit when things aren't quite the way we like them, it certainly always works for me), whereas 'immigrants' might be more prone to loving their host country rather unconditionally, cause they have chosen to leave their country of origin (presumably cause it wasn't as good as the new place). Hmmm ..... it is all rather confusing.

So I guess as Christina also pointed out in her comment after all they're just labels that might make it easier to find people in similar situations (it's certainly what it's been for me) and I do agree with that but being German with a need for exactness I can't help feeling that those different words do mean very distinctly different things ... but that somehow brings me back to the beginning, so I might just have to contend that the label 'expat' is a perfectly well functioning one that seems to unite us all no matter what the specifics of our situation.

4 Comments:

Blogger christina said...

Ahem...(and this is not at all German bashing - I have a German husband and an Austrian father so I've had first hand experience) I think Germans as a whole do tend to want to categorize everything and have it all organized. They like to know where they're at and where people fit in. Maybe that's the need you're feeling to figure out exactly what 'expat' or 'immigrant' might mean.

I agree with Renée's idea that expat sort of implies someone who is planning to go back after a certain amount of time. To me it also sometimes has the implication of moving to a country for work or being the "trailing spouse" and moving with a partner.

A long time ago I 'met' an American woman in the Netherlands who referred to people who married someone of a different nationality and moved to be with him or her 'love immigrants'. I sort of like that, but don't use it that often. Nor do I tell people I'm an immigrant, although technically I am. As you mentioned, Franzie, immigrant also sounds to me like someone who moves for political or economic reasons rather than for personal ones.

That's why I don't like to put labels on anything because it IS so confusing. :-) I think on the internet 'expat' is just a collective term we use to find others in the same boat.

P.S.(and off topic) Have you been keeping up with the German government's efforts to improve pre-schools and prepare children better for elementary school? Maybe by the time you move, the school system will have finally made some progress. One of the many reasons we'd like to move back to Canada are the poor schools here and Germany's low ranking in international comparisons. How does Australia measure up school-wise?

6:57 am  
Blogger Franzie said...

Hi Christina,
yes, I'm sooooo German when it comes to organising things into categories, might be a gross generalisation but I think most Germans would identify with the need for systems and organisation.

Sound's like we've pretty much worked this whole expat/immigrant things out but the expat-label seems to be a well funcioning one. Why not!

It's interesting that you brought up the topic of schooling. I think I'd like to turn that into a whole new post as I've been thinking a lot about that. So once I've done a bit of research into that to be writing something 'readworthy' I'll put my fingers to the keyboard. And I'll be looking forward to discussing that next :)

8:04 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hi Franzie, I have to say I don't really have any idea what I am classed as. I know I won't be moving back to England, probably ever, so am I an immigrant? Possibly. I also use the term expat to identify with others in the same position as me. I had never used the term until I came here, weird. At the moment I kind of feel that I don't really belong anywhere so.. I guess I am in no mans land at the moment.

4:19 am  
Blogger Franzie said...

Hi Lydia,
does it sound scary to you to say that you'll never (ever) be going back to Enland? I'd find it horrifying to say that without having experimented with all my options thoroughly.
We were never this commited to one place or the other. At the moment we're in Australia, cause it was the best thing for us at the time to move here. But in a few years time things might look totally different and it might be more suitable to our family and stage of life to be living in Germany. Also before we came to Australia my husband was always saying, if I was finding it too hard and getting unbearably homesick, we'd always move back to Germany. I guess, we like to keep our options open.
How are you coping in no-mans-land?? Unfortunately it gets a bit like that when you move between countries, doesn't it? You don't feel like you belong in the new place yet, but can't be where you do belong. So there's that incredibly hard phase in between where you just don't have a 'home' at all. Hope you get out of that grey zone quickly!!

9:02 am  

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Tuesday, February 7

am I or am I not?

I haven't been writing anything lately and that that was partly due to our family going away, me deciding that a lunch time nap might be the better option (to be energetic enough for my two monkeys in the arvo ... though today I've decided that a cuppa will have to do) and me reading other blogs. Most of those blogs are labeled expat-blogs and I started wondering whether I fit the description.

Am I or am I not?? Do I qualify as an "expat"?

According to dictionary.com an expat is:
1. One who has taken up residence in a foreign country.
2. One who has renounced one's native land.


I certainly haven't renounced Germany and Australia was a foreign country to me, but after living here for 4 1/2 years married to an Australian I can't help but feel that it really shouldn't be a foreign country any more.
Maybe that's partly connected to the attitude that any immigrant should assimilate and become Australian (whatever that means).
Gotta share a little story here:

I was sitting with a bunch of people I know when they started talking about "those immigrants" that just keep their own culture and don't assimilate. So I wanted to stir them up a bit and said "You mean people like me!" cause really I try to maintain a German culture in our home (not just for the kids' sake).
One of them answered "No, you're not like that, you're practically Australian." (or something to that effect, I do have to admit the conversation happened about a year ago.)
I said "No, I'm not!"
"Have you eaten a meat pie?"
"Yes, I've even cooked one once."
"There you go, you're practically Australian!"
Hmmm ... is that what it takes to be Australian? I might as well be Thai, since I cook Thai food at least once a week. But since national identity is a topic way to complex for what I was wanting to write about here I won't go any further with this.

So to get back to my original thought, Australia is not really a foreign country any more. I am quite accustomed to it (maybe Germany has even become a foreign country to me ... since I do think I'll find a lot of things qute weird over there after living here). But does that mean I am not an expat, could I possibly become an expat in Germany were we to go and live there??
I certainly don't think of myself as Australian. If someone asks I always say without hesitation, that I am German. But what is expatriation linked to, the nationality you've got or where you feel home is or isn't (which could easily bring me to my next topic, where is home, do I have two homes, one home or none ... two half homes might be most accurate but how is that possible??).

So maybe that's just what it comes down to if I look at the whole thing from the perspective of our family as a whole, it's not an issue since the BFG is an Australian (in his passport, by birth, place of residence, his parents and grandparents were born in here, the country that is home for him and probably the culture and customs he feels most at ease with are also Australian). Our family is most definitely not an expatriate family (neither here or in Germany).

But I as an individual have been an expat here and for the sake of our family, my relationship with Michael and my own sanity, have taken on this place as home.

So am I or am I not? I think I have been, and am not anymore!!

But I think I'll still read the expat blogs and identify with them to some degree, I guess I'll never again be either one or the other. I'm a bit of both, we are very much both and so the expat perspective is probably the closest for someone like me.

7 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

It's Michelle S. here, Fran. Please excuse my "Anonymous" post- I have forgotten what my blog ID is!!
I can identify with what you are saying here. While I was living in PNG during my high school years, I was definately classified as an expat- yet, although I did not assismilate into the real Indiginous culture, I became part of the missionary culture where I was living, and learned a lot about the Indiginous culture, too. (which now, from my older and changed perspective on society and social justice seems much more civilised than my birth homes' culture- another discussion altogether!!)It was not long at all before I was calling PNG home. When we returned to Australia for 8 months during my year 11 year, I felt like a fish out of water a lot of the time, and spent the whole 8 months looking forward to going "home"! I just did not feel safe where I was supposed to be calling home!! When I returned for good to Australia it took over a year before I really started thinking of Australia as home again- after I had some established friendships and a good support network around me. My point is this- technical definitions should be put aside in this instance (since you probably are still technically an expat here, as I was in PNG). Home is where you feel safe! So, if you feel safe in two countries, I think you have two homes! I think home can change, too. If you suddenly feel unsafe for whatever reason, you may have no home for a while. Then it is possible to move somewhere new and feel safe there very quickly, thus having a new home! (this is my perspective having moved house very frequently- but it doesn't apply to, or even come close to being relevant to, moving countries or cultures!)
Anyway, enough from me....
I'm enjoying reading your site! ;-)

4:57 pm  
Blogger christina said...

Hi Fran,

Well, I can say that 1) applies to me but 2) certainly does not. There's no way I would ever renounce my home country.

I have also completely integrated into German society, but I'll never be German and don't want to be. Why would I?

'Expat' for me is just a convenient label someone made up to give people common ground. I don't think you need to read so much meaning into it. When I put a link in my blogroll under 'expat', it's simply telling others that this is a person who has moved from one country to another, someone other 'expats' may have something in common with. It's not a judgement on how the person feels about it, how much they have integrated themselves, how they feel about their home country. All pretty irrelevant for me, really and not an issue in the grand scheme of things.

5:59 pm  
Blogger Franzie said...

Thanks for the comments,
I do have to say I like looking at it in terms of where home is and where I feel comfortable.
The funny thing is that the Mountains and our house are definitely home for me but in an ideal world I'd always like to pluck them out of Australia and plant them somewhere in Germany (I guess on the small scale here is home but on a larger scale I think, I'll always think of Germany as home ... though having been warned of reverse culture shock (and your experience, Michelle, seems to certainly proove that) I'm not too sure that I'll still feel the same were we to go to Germany).
Do you think, Michelle, that children have an easier time accepting a foreign place as home, because they don't think with labels and inside of boxes like adults and are most definitely more adaptable too?
You sayed that 'technically I'm still an expat here', that's the very thing I'm still unsure off! What makes me technically an expat here?
I tend to think being married to Michael makes me definitely more a local than an expat (I guess when I think of expats I think of people who know that there stay is only temporary and that they'll definitely go back to wherever the came from, probably 'home').
I agree that the label 'expat' only means that there is that one thing (having moved countries) that people share, but I was also wondering whether it means more than that for some people. Would you label yourself 'expat', Christina?
I've been looking at expat blogs, cause I know that I share a lot with other people who could be classed as 'expats'.
What about 'immigrant'? Why don't we call ourselves immigrants? How are expats and immigrants different and why do we prefer one label to the other?
When you integrate fully into the new culture but still think of yourself as a Kanadian, an American, a German or whatever, where is home then? That's probably a question for you, Christina ;-)
on a totally different note: I do think, you can comment, without a blogger ID, just under 'other' you should be able to just comment with your name (should you choose to), Michelle. Only for next time :-) I didn't really think that anybody would be reading my blog, except maybe for Michael, who want's to keep me blogging and so feels the need to encourage me, he he he.
I love the dicussion, so please keep bouncing your ideas and thoughts.

1:05 pm  
Blogger Haddock said...

Hi Fran, I am easy with the expat label. I've lived a lot of my life outside of the UK, and to be honest I am not too worried about my nationality. If someone said I would lose my British passport tomorrow, it pould not bother me too much. I would still support England in in football & cricket though. :)

I wouldn't say I have assimilated totally into German culture, as I do retain a certain ammount of Englishness :) But I do consider Germany nowadys as my home.

Thanks for stopping by my site.

10:19 pm  
Blogger Franzie said...

Thanks for the comment Mr. Haddock,
I find it very interesting to hear how other people deal with and see their bi- or mulitcultural identity.

I think nationality for me doesn't really come down to what's written in my passport but just what I identify with the most, maybe it should better be labeled 'home'. And after living in different places it's probably never again gonna be just the one. We tend to pick the raisins out of all the different cultures we've been exposed to over the years.

8:57 pm  
Blogger Alice in Germany said...

Hi Frankie,

A German friend ('Marianne') of mine had an almost identical experience in Australia to yours - the conversation about immigrants and assimiliation.

They said they weren't talking about people 'like her' - presumably because she is white. But I like to think that anyone who lives in Australia and wants to be Australian (or German-Australian, Thai-Australian etc) is accepted as such.

I am interested in your experiences with the locals accepting you as an 'Australian'.

As for children finding it easier to move to different countries because they are not so aware of labels, I am not so sure.

'Bruno' is German-Russian. He has always been a German national but was born in Russia and had Russian citizenship. He migrated back to Germany with his family when he was 10 years old. I say 'back to Germany' even though he never lived there because after his ancestors migrated to Russia they lived in German villiages and spoke/thought of themselves as German. However you are probably familier with Russian Germans.
Like a lot of migrants he had a tough time.
To Russains they were always German and when they moved to Germany they suddenly became Russians.
For some reason I thought that being a migrant in Australia might be easier, because nationality is not so based on ethnic lines.
Anyway am interested in your thoughts.

1:14 am  
Blogger Franzie said...

thanks for the comment, Alice.
Yes I think as a Russian (or Russian-labeled) migrant he would have had a tough time in Germany. I don't think Germans are terribly accomodating towards their immigrants.
In regards to being one nationality in the one country and then the other in the other country, I've always felt that that's mainly due to us focussing on what distinguishes us from the people around us. I've found that somehow people (that includes me) tend to focus on the differences rather than the similarities and I guess it then happens that you find yourself in Germany feeling very Russian (or being made to feel very Russian) and in Russia you realise how German you actually are.
I seem to change who and what I identify with as well. Often I'll say "well in Germany we do this or that" and then again "those Germans do this or that" and I've even been heard to say "in Australia we do this or that". Wonder what that says about my integration into Australian society.
About your question regarding my experience I thought I might write a whole new post as it is quite a story and I'd be keen to get some discussion going about that whole assimilation thing too.

8:02 pm  

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Wednesday, February 1

books, glorious books!

I Read this book just the other day by Mem Fox, a brilliant children's book author and literacy consultant as well as literacy professor (not that that gives her greater credibility, but I just love her stuff).

I found the book truly inspiring ... maybe cause it says what I've wanted to hear anyway "Go ahead, indulge yourself in books!! Have as many as you like ... and maybe even a few more!" I had a similar reaction of "Yes, yes, yes!" when I read the poem 'Television' from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory by Roald Dahl.

Forget about the subtitle of the book, which is quite offputting. I don't like this sort of self-help stuff that claims to tell you the secret of how you can achieve the impossible in 2 weeks.

The book itself is a really good read for any parent or person looking after children and reading to/with children. It has reminded me once again of how much fun there is to be had with books and that it is also extremely beneficial for children to be read with (even if it doesn't teach them how to read before they start school).
And for ideas on where to find good Australian children's books check out the Children's Book Council of Australia.

3 Comments:

Blogger RodeoClown said...

Hey Fran,
do you own that book, or is it someone else's?

I could read before I went to school. I didn't think it was that big of a deal.

I think that if you have an interest in reading and actually encourage your child to, then they probably will read 'early' too.

Hope things are well. It's no complaining day!

Read all about no complaining day.

1:17 pm  
Blogger Franzie said...

Got the book from the library (you're most welcome to borrow it), but wouldn't mind buying my own copy.

Yes, I agree that parents with a love for books, who foster that same love in their children rarely have children with literacy problems. Those children will generally read and write pretty well, but I just react to this "if you only do this little thing, then a, b and c are definitely going to happen" self-help sort of stuff. ("If you go running every day for 20 minutes you'll loose 5kg in 2 weeks")

I think it's a lot less deceptive and much more encouraging to just say "hey this or that is a really beneficial thing to do" and yes it might bring about these fabulous results, but even if it doesn't it still is a great thing to do (like reading lots to your children or doing exercise). I think it's much better if people are commited to the process rather the promised end result and they might get a pleasant surprise. Much less reason to complain too!!

Go the no-complaining-day!!!

1:47 pm  
Blogger RodeoClown said...

I completely agree about the saying 'do A, B and C' and then get 'D'.

I think if your kid doesn't start reading (well) till they are in year 6 or 7, what does it matter as long as they can get by and enjoy it.

Mat loves books now, I'm hoping he'll like them even more when they stop having pictures all the time :)

1:59 pm  

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